Tell me why Robbie Williams failed to conquer America with The Ego Has Landed in 1999

I bought it and really liked “Millenium”. But I don’t remember any other songs from it.

I went to see him at The Metro in Chicago when he toured for this. He dropped his pants and I was grabbing range from his exposed cock. But I was a lady and didn’t touch.

tell me why u harrass us w/ stupid requests regarding ur low-brow taste, op

Because Robbie has always had a "not quite" problem. Not quite hot, not quite cute, not quite talented... But close 🙄

He seemed to exude smug dead-eyed dickhead at a range American audiences already had a surfeit of.

anyone working in the record biz circa 2002? why didn't the big EMI promise to break Robbie in the states happen?

I like him but he did always seem pretty generic. I was in high school when his duet with Kylie was out - Kids. When I bought the CD and heard the "Press be asking do I care for sodomy - I don't know - Yeah, probably" lyric, I thought it was so hot.

Regional megastars never translate well. They’re always pushed too hard too soon and it rubs people the wrong way. There’s no trajectory in the narrative of their public image for people to warm up to them. We’re automatically supposed to know and love them. Doesn’t work that way.

The only time it really worked was with Amy Winehouse and that was only because her album was so good and she had such an interesting public image. We got Robbie Williams at the same time as a lot of male pop stars and he wasn’t handsome or talented enough to break out of the pack.

Eventually, he became a Pizzagate/QAnon conspiracy theorist.

^ Oh, God, on top of everything else he's a Q-Nut 🙄

R10 Wow I have never heard that, it's so good! His voice sounds wonderful! He "gets" the character and vocal stylings of this genre. Has Robbie Williams done any musical theater? He could.

My guilty pleasure is Robbie's ugly red-headeded stepchild of an album, 2006's "Rudebox." Released at the height of his prescription pill addiction. It's actually his most varied, interesting, witty, ballsy and at points most brutally honest album. But it's also batshit crazy and I'm not even sure if it is still in print, let alone considered canon in the oeuvre.

Robbie had moved to LA earlier that same year to finally crack the US market once and for all. But he went so off the rails so hard and fast, it was not possible to create any traction. He checked into rehab on his 22rd birthday in 2007 and ended up back in England for a few years to lick his wounds.

While I find the title track "Rudebox" to be a ludicrously fun and sleazy dirty little secret of a bop, there are some legitimately amazing, well-crafted songs on this album. There are two Pet Shop Boys' produced tracks, some Mark Ronson productions, Lily Allen sings back up on this bitch...there's a lot going on. A song about Madonna. Songs about pill addiction. Two tracks at the end, these revelational spoken word stream of consciousness constructions, "The 80s" and "The 90s" that serve as melodic autobiographica. Those two end the record. They are as catchy as they are poignant.

I'd say my favorite song on the album is "Lovelight," a warm, brassy soulful banger with a killer beat and a sexy falsetto vocal that gives peak George Michael a run for his money. I can't believe "Lovelight" that didn't dominate the world charts. It's a masterpiece.

But yeah. Drugs. Pills. So so many pills. Here's Robbie in the video for the title track, unable to even focus his eyes. He's off his fucking tits. Pudgy, pasty, totally out of it. This video definitely kills my boner from the record because it's so obvious how unwell the guy was in this era.

But I will always defend the record as a legitimate work of art since very few people want to even remember that it exists.

*sorry, his 33rd birthday, not 22nd

Like Tracey Ullman, it's a mystery how some talented people like Robbie don't make it.

Brilliant track from his failed "US takeover" era. It's a puzzle. Maybe he's to smart, lyrically? He oozes British dry wit, and "Muricans don't always get it or want it

[quote]I bought it and really liked “Millenium”.

Oh, dear.

R15, Americans set the tone of pop culture so they don’t have to listen to British also-rans. Were ‘Muricans too simple for Adele? Or is it just aging former Boy Banders that we’re too provincial to grasp the sophistication of?

Yes, R4 and R7 are exactly right. People don't like to feel tricked into liking an artist. RW was marketed way too hard and seemed to be sold on his own ticket to superstardom. He also just wasn't distinctive enough to've mattered.

[quote]Wow I have never heard that, it's so good! His voice sounds wonderful! He "gets" the character and vocal stylings of this genre. Has Robbie Williams done any musical theater? He could.

He really shines with that kind of number. He's able to tap into a Bobby Darren kind of showmanship. Hard to find in today's singers. If he had been around in the early '60s he could have been a huge success. He would have been a member of the Rat Pack.

I mean no harm when I state my opinion on this. Alright?

I think that Robbie was too campy for the United States. I also think the same thing about Mika (who I still quite like).

Robbie also just always looked old in the face. He looked 45 at the age of 27.

R17 I was specifically referring to Robbie's wry British humor and his pronouced Scouseness which never ended up clicking for Americans. Adele doesn't trade in Britishism. Nor did George or Elton. Robbie does though. It's kind of his bread and butter and the main thing that sets him apart from the legions of other British ex-boy banders or moderately handsome solo artists of his era. He has a self-aware cheeky British wit and a degree of intelligence that cannot be manufactured.

But I freely admit, that his cheeky Scouseness has no meaning, purpose or relevance in the States.

Sorry, but I thought Millennium was a very bland song and seemed like a tepid attempt to cash in on the "millennium craze".

I believe he was hyped and promoted as sort of crooner. Remember his duet with Nicole Kidman?

US consumers just didn't connect with his goofy charm, which is usually reserved for comic relief sidekicks in movies and TV shows.

I liked this song and Millennium but that's it.

Wait, WHO?

Is OP posting from 2001 ?!?

R22, you’d have to buy the album in the first place to be exposed to this alienating Scouseness. Robbie Williams was rejected almost on sight. The American pop market was saturated with big male pop stars like Justin Timberlake. That’s pretty hard to compete with when you’re a middle-aged looking up-and-comer without a crossover hit. He should’ve remained a big fish in a small pond where his only competitors were other failed boy banders with faces like an ankle.

Always loved the weird video for Rock DJ and found him super hot. Also thought it was odd he never broke through in the US while he was a huge name in Mexico.

R28, I find it fascinating that The Smiths were also massive in Mexico. Way more than they were in America.

I did enjoy his shirtless escapades with the rest of Take That.

This was a superb concert. If you never watch or listen to anything else he ever did this is worth your time.

I’m American and really like European pop. I remember the push for Robbie Williams here. They really tried. I tried too. I like Kylie, Take That, Atomic Kitten, et al, but I could not get interested in Robbie Williams. Maybe there is something about his personality that does not work in America.

“Sing When You’re Winning” was a favorite album of mine for a time. Love this song in particular.

Always been a fan of his. Maybe it’s for the best he didn’t make it big here in the US.

[quote]Americans set the tone of pop culture

Bitch please.

I love both Robbie and Kylie. While Kylie has had some hits in North America, neither of them became the massive pop stars they should have as they are in the UK and other parts of the world.

Even Take That only had one hit in North America and I believe that was after Robbie left.

America has been a bit fickle with UK music the past few decades. They liked Rick Astley but didn't care to fully embrace the SAW sound. So no Sinitta or Sonia or Jason Donovan who was one of the biggest pop stars in the late '80s.

Girls Aloud is another example although I believe they never even bothered to court the American market. But they were massive in the UK.

R37 SAW music? What does that stand for?

Stock Aitken and Waterman

Not aging well at all. Is he still boozing and drugging?

I think he was thought of as a poor man’s Billy Idol

His De-Lovely is indeed lovely. I'd also like to hear him attempt more music like that. He's got the right kind of voice for it.

R43 there’s the whole ‘Swing when you’re winning’ album plus the concert up thread.

I thought he was adorable back when . I liked a few of his songs,but overall the majority were bland shit ,"Angel" anyone? Id have let him fuck me on the dais in Rock DJ ! He looked super hot in that one.

He did a follow-up to the Swing album although it wasn't as good.

I knew nothing about him when he outed Ricky Martin and I make sure to mention this whenever he’s discussed.

He is a multi layered lasagne. I have always thought he looks ready to burst, psychologically.

R12, hi Robbie!!!

Just kidding, I actually love Rudebox too.

I am obsessed with Robbie Williams, legitimately. I have flown all over the world to see him in concert. I even paid an insane amount of money to meet him (he was a bit wild-eyed, but kind). I've always thought the America problem was the difference in British and American humor. To British people, he's cheeky. To Americans, he just sounds like a dick.

American music is strewn with successful assholes.

We like a straight up dick.

Robbie just wasn’t the one.

[quote] Regional megastars never translate well. They’re always pushed too hard too soon and it rubs people the wrong way. There’s no trajectory in the narrative of their public image for people to warm up to them. We’re automatically supposed to know and love them. Doesn’t work that way.

^^This is the biggest reason.

Take That was a huge success in the UK, but that did not translate across the Atlantic. He had started his solo career in the UK and was a superstar after take That dissolved, but when he made his big US push, potential American fans were really confused. What made it especially alienating was that the album is all about Williams dealing with his conflicted feelings being a superstar, and yet he was NOT a superstar in the US at all--no one had heard of him (which still baffles Brits to hear this, but it is completely true). So it seemed like he was complaining about how famous and adored he was and yet he was not famous and adored in the UK.

The other problem is his sex appeal, which again did not translate across the Atlantic. Brits just love cheeky working-class boys who have ears that stick out and like to suck down ciggies, because they seem adorable and naughty. That just does not translate, again, across the Atlantic--it's very culturally specific.

What amazes me is not that Robbie did not make it in the US but that his management did not do a better job of marketing him here. They needed to make the push with a different album, and to be honest they needed to change his look and his appeal.

EMI thought Robbie’s success with Angels could be repeated in the U.S. What they failed to grasp was that the success of the song in the UK was due to the death of Princess Diana. And that pretty much the rest of Robbie’s songs are shit. Plus Take That was never a thing in the U.S. really.

[quote] and yet he was not famous and adored in the UK.

Sorry: that should have read "in the US"

That “Millennium” song just wasn’t strong enough.

And he looked too old for the TRL era.

the music industry as a whole began to tank circa 2002

his timing couldn't have been worse

I loved his duet with Nicole Kidman. They both look gorgeous here.

classic bipolar, the manic variety

people always lessen the severity of what that means

toss in when he goes off his meds, he tends to self medicate with uppers

it's a dangerous mix of self destruction.

what did Robbie fans think of the hits remixes XXV from last year ? most albums are streaming below on youtube

He’s usually really funny on Graham Norton’s show. I find that very endearing.

I was probably 11 or 12 when “Millennium” came out and I loved the song.

At the time I didn’t know he was a big superstar somewhere else.

But to me the song was like “Tubthumping”. It was like an alternative type of song that MTV always played.

1999 / 2000 was about bubblegum pop and dance and soft pop.

I remember all my friends thought it was a cool song but we weren’t obsessed with him like we were with Eminem and Jay-Z and Korn, etc.

For kids he was up against Eminem, Limp Bizkit, Blink 182, Britney Spears, NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, Jay-Z, DMX, and R&B like Destiny’s Child and Sisqo. He just didn’t fit in with the American radio vibes.

But like I said, I remember specifically talking in a classroom to everyone about how we all liked that song.

But if you told me he was supposed to be this massive big superstar and not some cool indie artist, I’d have been shocked.

The closest thing to visibility after “Millennium” and “Angel” was “Rock DJ” because of the music video.

It was weird that a male pop singer would be popular.

As someone who was born in 1987, I can’t recall ever growing up with a popular male pop star in the US.

I feel like Americans idolize rock stars - including rappers.

Like I feel like Harry Styles is the first strait laced white male pop star in decades to be idolized that was based in more rock / pop than R&B / hip-hop.

If Robbie really wanted to conquer the US, he’d have made an R&B / hip-hop album in the early 2000s.

What R3 said. Also he was known to be bi or gay which was a no-no here. Finally, he is fugly.

R63 I don’t think anyone in the US knew that here though.

I also don’t remember him being pushed. I don’t remember him on MTV at all besides his music videos. I don’t remember any interviews or anything.

The Ego Has Landed was a combo of his first two albums. I remember he played a concert here in Toronto but I agree with r64 the push wasn't that big here. I think they tried to push Feel a few years later but, again, it was kind of lacklustre effort.

I don't think he was that bothered with courting America or he really wanted to and then realized it was going to be a challenge.

His sexual 'ambiguity' was known worldwide. Fugly gayboi in DeNile.

He was definitely pushed. And they tried again with that song "Feel" (which I like).

The gay thang didn't affect true talent like George Mitchell.

^ Michael (damned autocorrect to quote the traditional DLers!)

yes, George [bold]Mitchell[/bold] is the best

I like the French version of Supreme

r64 He was pushed in the U.S. but the marketing was about ten years too young. He had a glass closet in the U.S. but as the American game goes, they played the denial route, but his associations remained well known... because again, they kept trying to market him to tween/teen girls.

and Yeah, he would have a better opportunity if he pushed more into Remy Shand territory than white Ricky Martin.

r69 yes, it did hurt George Michael, hence they went for denial... hence, most went the denial route and there's fraus alive today still unaware of Clay, Liberace, Barry Manilow

R54 I never identified him with the TRL era.

The thing about the 90’s, as someone who is 35.

You had your cool singers you idolized and then you had songs that you just loved regardless of their age of genre.

Today or the last 20 years, I feel like music has been more based in the artist appeal rather than the songs.

Maybe I’m wrong but it’s like I think about Dido or Eagle Eye Cherry or one hit wonders who were never considered cool but everyone knows every word to those hit songs.

It’s like I absolutely love Shawn Mullins song “Lullaby”. Or Billie Meyers “Kiss The Rain”.

With the death of MTV and VH1 leaving music videos behind, I feel like people choose what they listen to way more instead of stumbling on a song they would have never listened to cause MTV is on.

R70: that is dreadful, he looks like he's out of La Planète des singes.

Speaking of all of this as an American.

I had NO idea this song was Take That. No idea it was Robbie or Gary. I don’t even remember this video.

But I loved this song. It’s one of those songs you heard as a child and disappeared and you stumbled on it as an adult and remember it clearly.

I love this song lol.

R74 they all had bad teeth, God know how they made an impact with teenagers here.

I don't know why Williams didn't land in the US, but neither did Kylie Minogue and she's one of the biggest stars on the planet.

I guess we're just finicky.

They're not Black enough to succeed here. Just sayin'.

I liked Robbie Williams. I think I have at least one of his albums, and now I've want to get the swing album mentioned above.

His guest spot on Graham Norton with Emma Thompson and some other British comedian is hilarious. How sad to find out he's a conspiracy nutjob.

[quote]Tell Me Why Robbie Williams Failed To Conquer America.

GIRLFRIEND SUCKS!

R77 That’s how I feel.

They have no flavor and if you’re going to be flavorless in the US, then you have to be more rock or redneck. Which is why Eminem was so massive. He was a combination of both.

R76 But again with Kylie, I bought “Fever” as a kid because I loved all the singles. And I love that album.

But that was 2002. She was up against Pink, Avril Lavigne, Ashanti, Jennifer Lopez, and Christina Aguilera.

It was like, she was cool but she wasn’t edgy and fashionable like they were.

British boyband 5ive got to perform at the Ricky Lake show but still didn't manage to make it big

R82 Chavs from the council estate don't really travel well as a rule (although I did).

This song was a British crossover in the US. I feel like a lot of people remember this song.

Listening to it as we speak, they can’t sing for shit.

I have 5 of his consecutive albums from 1997 through 2002. If you enjoy well written and produced pop/rock, Robbie Williams was at the top of his game during that time. He was huge in UK, Europe, Asia, and Australia, but never managed to break through in the US. Acts with a lot less quality music were on the charts though.

"Comin' Atcha (Cleopatra's Theme)," as a song title, makes me want to punch things

Robbie should not have messed around with other guys so much

R14 Where's the mystery? His music is the aural equivalent of mayonnaise.

Robbie's imperial phase in the UK was also partly due to Guy Chambers. I believe he and Guy had a falling out and I thought Robbie's music suffered as a result.

His prematurely aged face always freaked me out. But these days he looks surprisingly decent for a 50-year-old with a former drug/drink addiction. I guess those cosmetic procedures he admitted to having a few years ago worked.

Too campy and corny for America

The record company certainly pushed him hard in the US, but he was being sold as already a superstar and no one here could understand why.

The Ego Has Landed seemed like some sort of unwarrented inside joke that we couldn't be bothered to try to get

In the UK, a big part of his appeal was that he was seen as this "bad boy", free from the constraints of being in a mom-friendly boyband and free to make music that was on the raunchier side of pop. There was no such narrative in America, he certainly wasn't seen as being that "bad" with Eminem and similar acts around, and his music was fine but not that special that he would've broken on the strength of it alone. Keep in mind that Latin-flavored pop (Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias,...) was what was ruling the pop charts at the time, along with Britney, boybands, hip hop, along with that nu-metal garbage, so he wasn't really a natural fit for pop radio/TRL.

[quote] Is he still boozing and drugging?

No. Ayda put a stop to that. She's a very tough lady.

R54 here again. I was about 15 or 16 when “Milleminum” came out in the US — and only remember seeing it on TRL. Maybe it peaked at 8 or 9?

It seemed so out of place. They should have tried to market him on 120 Minutes, the alternative show.

R96 He seems rather popular in Latin America. I took a look at his chart stats on Wikipedia, and his Greatest Hits has a 7xPlatinum (!!) certification in Argentina.

In the UK he was the “housewives’ favourite”.

That doesn’t really map to anything in the U.S.

He was presented as an older sun-baked ex-boyband member.

We were too busy watching Lance Bass learn how to count.

If you look at the Billboard Hot 100 of 1999, artists fall into distinct categories: hip-hop/r&b (nearly half the songs!), teen pop, latin pop, modern country, and soft alternative. Robbie didn't have a prayer unless he joined the Goo Goo Dolls or something.

[quote] He seems rather popular in Latin America. I took a look at his chart stats on Wikipedia, and his Greatest Hits has a 7xPlatinum (!!) certification in Argentina.

He's to Argentina what Connie Francis is to Israel!

I’ll never get it. Ive been a huge RW Stan since his first LP. Seen him in London and NYC. He’s so charismatic and entertaining and has really great music . Americans don’t get him. His wife’s an opportunistic hag.

2 others I can think of that seemed to be pushed by MTV during the late 90s were Jamiroquai and Bif Naked. The Virtual Insanity video was on MTV all the time in 97.

R49 did you get a vibe from him? I always found him sexually fluid, whatever floats his boat, am I off? His wife is manish and definitely a desperate failed actress who got lucky when she hooked up with him because he was the lowest of his drug addiction and self esteem problems.

Wasn't he on the X Factor or one of those reality shows and he would only join if his wife was allowed to be a judge?

Ayda looks hard and rough herself.

R12: OMG Rudebox was/is my personal fave too

Thanks for your detailed analysis

I wouldn't be so alone

If they knew my name in every home

Kevin Spacey would call on the phone

But I'd be too busy

Come back to the old five and dime

Cameron Diaz give me a sign

I'd make you smile all the time

And your conversation would compliment mine

Higher resolution of r109

I'm confused. Are people forgetting about the Spice Girls when they say how few British crossover stars there were in the late 90's? Their last huge hit was that Viva whatever song in 1998. And I think they even had one last album release in 2000 after Geri left that didn't do too bad at all. Plus, Austin Powers was a huge thing. And The Parent Trap. The Beatles '1' compilation album was released in 2000 and Yellow Submarine had a huge resurgence in popularity. Americans were still obsessed over Di's death. American Y2K culture was VERY into the Brits. I just don't see that as a good enough reason for Robbie Williams flopping.

Honestly, he just looked too old with too little sex appeal to resonate with kids and teens, and was too young and poppy be attractive to older audiences that had their pick from the explosion of adult contemporary artists at the time.

Nobody really knew too much about him. And he wasn't interesting enough for anyone to learn.

[quote]Their last huge hit was that Viva whatever song in 1998

Viva Forever! I'll be waiting.....Everlasting, like the sun

Shout out to my Rudebox bestie, R108!

I really liked Rock DJ. He’s better than Timberlake.

Eagles are ‘Murican only

Hi r12 /r116: thanks!

I think this is the video he did/released right before he checked into rehab. Sad and poignant at the same time

^ oops I forgot to sign off, it’s me r108

He's boring and generic. He was cute (but not interesting) for five minutes in 1999, and then it was over.

IMO he wasn't a hit in the US because the average young American's taste in music during his time was and continues to be utter trash. Robby's music is far too mature for them. I love his music.

Bad timing

...for the climate of the.misic industry

...in that his trajectory had nowhere to go I'm the UK but he was quite unknown in the U.S.; he was presented as someone too famous to have a life when almost nobody in the U.S. knew anything of him

...bad timing in that's looks, always prematurely ahead of him, were crashing and he carried on with that ridiculous cupcake of a quiff hairstyle, a little bantam rooster homunculus with fancy hair and sleeveless tees and a lumpy body singing about his game

...bad timing in that it's better to tour and then to take up residence rather than the other way around

...bad timing in that the UK has a smaller circle of celebrities on whom endless ink is spilled to keep their names on everyone's tongues as lovable rogues ("did you see what that Robbie Williams did this time?"). before the popular rise of social media that might have helped him

He had the advantage in the UK because Take That was a very well known band (heck, teenage girls started killing themselves when they broke up, only for them to reunite not a decade later). Also, he was sexy back in the day, and the “cheeky chappy” persona was very much IN in the 90’s/early 00’s. At least over here. He also had some very strong material early on; for a while it was hit after hit and many were genuinely good songs.

Now he’s something of an oddity. You don’t hear much about him and I don’t even know if his newer music still charts anymore. I think he’ll always be considered with some fondness here, in spite of his conspiracy theorist tendencies (I don’t think he’s terribly bright), even if he is firmly in legacy act territory.

No matter how they polished him up, he always came across as an annoying Brit backpacker who stayed at the party and stole everyone's drinks. There's a fine line between cheeky chappy and punch that annoying Britcunt in the face.

I liked a lot of this songs, and yes, Rudebox was great. In Europe he is still a star, selling concerts, everybody says he is very good and charming live.

He aged like hell though and I don’t think there’s been a hit in years. Maybe he should go back to London.

Love this duet with Rufus.

This is his best song coz it sounds like normal music

I don't the love shown in this thread for Rudebox. It's easily the worst thing he ever released.

^^ Would you please translate that into English.

Jessica Siimpson's cover of "Angels" was more popular than his original version,

"The Ego Has Landed" is a pretty dumb title for an album meant to introduce you to the US market. As others have said, his appeal and image in the UK was rooted in a boy band past that no one in the US knew or cared about. His bad boy persona made no sense; he was more of a pretty boy in the mold of George Michael - a pop singer. The US invented rock and hip hop so we're not impressed by someone who's merely cheeky singing pop songs with a sneer.

119 Darn, I've never seen that video, I was super excited! But I it won't play in my country :-/. Hopefully I can find it somewhere else on the web. Very curious now.

Love, Your Rudebox BFF

Sorry! The above message was for R119

Who saw the 2022 fall tour? Will one of you bitches please report back.

R129 Sorry, I can’t type for shit! It should’ve read:

I don't get the love shown in this thread for the song ‘Rudebox’. It's easily the worst thing he ever released.

R135 We're talking about the album Rudebox, as a whole, of which the title track is only one song of many

He has more charisma than Gary Barlow.

"Tonight, I'm gonna tell ye the story of Gary Barlow and Robert Williams. And by the end, we shall see who's the richer man.

-- Not in terms of money, but in personal growth, and fulfillment."

Part 2 of this masterpiece of British televised drama

Robbie was often rumored to be gay then suddenly got married.

I’m not a fan of most of his music but the song I do like I absolutely love. She’s Madonna is amazing

I don’t even know who the other members of Take That were

He has a Frankenstein's Monster head.

Because he is terminally British.

I think anyone who is 'such a huge star in X' is destined to be viewed with a very critical eye in the US market.

Say what you will, but Shakira had a dabbling of success but never really caught on in the US in the same way. Unlike smaller countries where there are major radio and TV stations from the capital that are heard and seen throughout the whole country, the US has dozens/hundreds of smaller markets to promote in and it takes a LOT of time.

I would venture it would take longer to do a thorough US press and concert tour in the US then it would to do most of Europe. Kylie never spent the time in the US promoting her music - not until the 2000's and even then, she wasn't consistent.

Robbie's music was OK, but I couldn't see what all the fuss was about - even when I was in Europe during his peak years. It didn't make much sense to me.

I just did a random sampling of his hits off of Spotify. My goodness, his music is flavorless. That’s why he flopped in the US. He keeps missing that extra something that elevates his sound from generic pop vocal to memorable sound.

Since we didn’t know him, didn’t ask for him, and didn’t care about him, he flopped in the States. Adele busted down the doors with “Rollin in the Deep”. It had soul, groove, energy, and flavor. Even Styles elevated his pop to be just different enough to be catchy. Robbie, sounds on records as bland as a traditional British cuisine.

R149, thank you. I was going to try to watch his videos, but became distracted by someone making potato pancakes.

He was too “cheeky.” Americans had already had their fill of cheeky with the Spice Girls.

Ginger bombed here with her first solo single around the same time Robbie released “Millenium.”

Shakira is definitely well known in the US and had a time of being popular. I wouldn’t compare her to Robbie Williams.

“Hips Don’t Lie” was a huge song.

I know what you mean about his cheeky chappie persona, R22/R15, but Robbie isn't a Scouser. Scousers come from Liverpool, while Robbie is from the West Midlands. I do think you're right though that his humour might be off-putting to some Americans while it went down really well in the UK in the early days. "She's Madonna" is one of his best songs, and not a hit, in which he is very dryly amusing.

The Spice Girls (also Shakira and Kylie) were pretty much a one hit wonder in the US. Yes, the hit was massive and the follow-ups got some play. Many people know who they are here, but they've never translated long lasting past cult status here.

Americans don't know what "cheeky" is. From this thread, it appears that RW had some tabloid fame that helped propel some record sales in other parts of the world despite his very average looks and voice.

I like this track, I think it's about Elvis' fall from grace. I'm more of a fan of his 'serious' songs, except for Angels because I've heard it too often. Jessica Simpson's cover sounds like a cat in heat that's being strangled

Did he ever use American producers?

What is "cheeky," r154? I mean, I think I know but I am curious to hear it defined in terms of a pop persona.

"Cheeky" is a word in the English language, R157. There are multiple definitions from online dictionaries that are widely accessible.

Have to agree with the comparisons of his music to mashed potatoes or dry toast...The Spice Girls, that redheaded shape of you guy, all the foreign pop acts that make it in the US have some kind of funk or groove to their music.

And yes, he looked old as hell. Timberlake and Ricky Martin are former boybanders but they looked young or no older than their age. Teens don't want to see someone who reminds them of their drunk dad singing Frank Sinatra karaoke at their second cousin's wedding

[quote]I don’t even know who the other members of Take That were

We don’t know who Take That were.

Because it sucked, op. Because it sucked.

[quote]"Cheeky" is a word in the English language, [R157].

Cheeky is a British word. It’s not used in American English.

Robbie lives in a niche zone populated with others like The Sugababes, Sophie Ellis-Bextor, Will Young, The Feeling, Goldfrapp, and Roisin Murphy, to name a few, who would have had a lane to break out of were it not for the ceasing of music videos on MTV/VH1 and the consolidation of American radio.

and yes, I would still ride him like Seabiscuit if ever given the chance

[quote]No. Ayda put a stop to that. She's a very tough lady.

She learned from the best!

He always looks like he's smirking. Not attractive.

He sang with an English accent.

R154 As a wee gayling of around 10 or 11 when the Spice Girls swept the US, I would VERY much disagree with you in merely comparing them to Shakira or Kylie. Little girls everywhere worked themselves into hernia-inducing hysterics over them. Just about every Millenial girl (and gay boy) can tell you which Spice Girl they "played". I was a redhead, so always type casted as Ginger (but longed to be a Posh). They may have had a short shelf life of active hits, but when they were a thing, they were a SENSATION.

NOW they have a cult following. But at the time, they were bigger than the Beatles for the 9-14 year old set.

[quote]I was a redhead, so always type casted as Ginger (but longed to be a Posh).

This is why the Millennial generation is garbage.

[quote]Too many redheads, [R170]?

Gay men “longing” to “be” this hideous anorexic cunt.

I was in the 5th grade—not too sure gay "man" would have have been the best characterization of me, R172. I was also playing 'The Golden Girls' with my sister's barbies in the 5th grade (something I hardly ever do anymore, thank you very much).

Apologies, I triggered the Posh Spicebot alert. I'll be more careful next time. Lesson learned.

The gay men that idolized The Spice Girls are the same idiots who idolized Britney Spears. It's a straight line down.

And what were your deeply sophisticated musical tastes at 10-years old, R175?

R176, who said anything about sophisticated? Let's stick with GOOD music.

R172, I just realized that it was really Posh Spice who popularized the "Karen" haircut BEFORE Kate Gosselin

[quote]The gay men that idolized The Spice Girls are the same idiots who idolized Britney Spears. It's a straight line down.

When these cunts were popular, I was enjoying Paula Cole, Sarah McLachlan, and Ani DiFranco. Real female artists did exist in the late ‘90s, for those who cared.

R179, absolutely. I was only 9 or so when the Spice Girls hit it big but I despised The Spice Girls and Britney. The latter way more so.

You've got me, R177. As a 10-year old, I enjoyed occasionally dressing up as the Spice Girls with the two chubby Polish girls who lived next door—an experience that one should naturally assume thereafter defined the entire scope of my musical tastes as a grown man. *eye roll*

For what it's worth, I also listened to Paula Cole, Sarah McLachlan, and Ani DiFranco then, as did most people (they were all over the radio). I also loved Fleetwood Mac and Heart and Miriam Makeba as a child.

Ani DiFranco was not “all over the radio”.

Oh, r162, don't be so strict! I say "cheeky" often---but it must be followed by "monkey"!

[quote] and yes, I would still ride him like Seabiscuit if ever given the chance

Honey, these days, the old grey mare she just ain't what she used to be....

'e just likes to 'ave a laff, 'e does, our Robbie!

Isn't this douchebag in court with Led Zep guitarist Jimmy Page? The case has something to do with Robbie adding a swimming pool, or something ridiculous, to his London mansion's basement?

Jimmy Page lives next door to Robbie Williams. Page lives in the historic Tower House. The case is centered around the damage Williams construction will likely do to Tower House’s structure.

Page spent millions restoring Tower House, he sure doesn’t want some self-absorbed asshole pop singer ruining his historic building. IIRC, when Page dies, he's willing Tower House to the city of London, he wants it to be a museum.

‘Summertime’: Another bittersweet track from ‘Rude Box’

You can add that mediocrity known as Oasis to this discussion, as well. They're music is pedestrian, they're lyrics obtuse most of the time, and the singing nasally and monotone. Kylie Minogue, Robbie Williams and Oasis were huge in the UK because they had a history there or because they represented some uniquely Brit character. She was cute and adorable, he was cheeky and naughty, they were brash and unfiltered. In America she and her music came across as generic and boring and trying way too hard to ingratiate (in that Love at First Sight video she's acting coy and cutesy in a way that screams "find me charming and lovable!" and she's dressed like a 15 year old even though she was 41(!!!) at the time and the song was bland, generic pablum); Robbie just seemed smug and smarmy and his lyrics tried too hard to be clever and insightful (they weren't) and not hard enough to be memorable or singable; and Oasis were just crass assholes who thought they were God -- boy, did you Brits allow their egos to get out of control, they really thought they were better than everyone else when in reality they're a second rate guitar band with, maybe, 4 decent songs. I'm glad Americans saw through their hype to the no-talents underneath.

[quote] an experience that one should naturally assume thereafter defined the entire scope of my musical tastes as a grown man. *eye roll

Totally not judging you. But I do know quite a few gay men who still listen to the same crap they did when they were younger. I have met loads of gay men who still love Britney Spears because she's such a "gay icon".

I dislike Oasis music but I love listening to them bitch and fight. Brits are great . Noel Gallagher sure is a bitch

But Oasis gifted the world with this song, beautifully reinterpreted by Swedish singer Aurora here

Plus at the time, Timberlake kind of ruined it for Robbie by raising the stakes for male solo artists with his dancing. Robbie’s dancing was never at that level and he wasn’t much of a singer, so… the U.S. isn’t much interested in “entertainers”.

R192, there’s plenty of US born entertainers with minimal singing abilities.

Their songs are catchier R194.

True, r194, but they're OURS. No need to import more!

“ The Spice Girls (also Shakira and Kylie) were pretty much a one hit wonder in the US. ”

Shakira has 8 top 20 hits in the US, including 2 top 10 hits this year.

Shakira is legit in the US.

“ Isn't this douchebag in court with Led Zep guitarist Jimmy Page?”

Jimmy? We know him.

Similarly, Oasis never cracked the American market - outside of one song (Wonderwall). They weren't good either - which is hard for Brits to hear, but I never understood their appeal either. And the smug, criminal acting Gallagher brothers were ugly and just plain assholes.

Liam Gallagher has a monobrow and Noel looks like a prototype for a Thunderbirds puppet: One which was rejected.

Noel has monobrow but is arguably one of the more gifted songwriters to come out of the UK rock scene in the past 30 years.

The music industry typically has one star that gets famous and occupies a niche with 1-3 others following to be marketed as rivals or just ripoffs before dumping all of them 3-5 years later to make a new star.

Ricky Martin simply got more popular worldwide first from 1995-1998 and beat Robbie to a US crossover. The industry only needed one gay, somewhat-foreign/exotic ex-boybander. Then Enrique and Marc Anthony followed and they were his rivals (a la Britney v Xtina, BSB v NSYNC), making Robbie doubly unnecessary.

I think Robbie kinda knew that and that’s why he pretty much outed Ricky… because you think he’d be empathetic towards him instead of acting like a jealous queen.

Watching Take That at the Coronation concert made me think how little cultural longevity Robbie's songs have achieved with the exception of Angels which became an X Factor/funeral standard.

Whereas Take That had Back For Good, Never Forget, Patience, Shine, Greatest Day and Rule The World. And a couple of their cover versions.

I wasn’t getting that from Take That; they seemed washed up, old and irrelevant, and I’ve only ever liked maybe one or two of their songs. They were scraping the bottom of the barrel for coronation concert music.

Everyone at the concert knew Never Forget, Shine and Greatest Day.

Whether you like them or not, they're cultural classics in a way one of Robbie's songs are, other than Angels.

“Cultural classics” is pushing it, extremely. Some tracks might be familiar but I don’t know anyone who would actually admit to listening to their music.

Robbie the raconteur is charming as hell!

207 here. I meant to add how strange it is that Justin Timberlake, whom everyone on this thread agrees was a major roadblock to Robbie’s success, comes off as a doting, prudish father next to him. Love Anna and Daniel’s reactions.

I think it’s great that Robbie has kept his edge while we’ve come to realize that Justin never had any.

207 he is charming and a great storyteller. Justin does comes across very vanilla next to that!

did take that with robbie perform at Charles coronation last week?

R208 "...Justin Timberlake, whom everyone on this thread agrees was a major roadblock to Robbie’s success"

LOL It's all JT's fault this pablum didn't sell in the States? Even if Timberlake had never been born, this bland cypher would still be obscure in America. His music is soulless, boring and derivative.

That Angels song is puke-worthy.

R211, I’m not saying that because it’s my opinion. Im saying it because JT’s name has been invoked multiple times in this thread.

[quote]“Cultural classics” is pushing it, extremely. Some tracks might be familiar but I don’t know anyone who would actually admit to listening to their music.

Whatever term you want to use, several of Take That's songs are now classics, songs where everyone knows the song as soon as it starts and can sing along to.

Robbie has Angels or I'm Loving Angels Again as it's sometimes known. Millennium and Rock DJ are a bit more niche.

The madness is screaming out of him.

R214 'several of Take That's songs are now classics, songs where everyone knows the song as soon as it starts and can sing along to'

Nobody outside the UK has heard of them. This comment is Jabbaesque.

[quote]Nobody outside the UK has heard of them. This comment is Jabbaesque.

Yes. as the thread title makes clear.

He handles this kind of material with a certain amount of verve.

His contemporary pop singing is serviceable but not very distinguishable from so many others of that era.

He should have tried to make it in the theater.

R214, No. Nobody in the US knew WTH Take That were singing at the Coronation.

Take That were one-hit wonders in the US. And Robbie Williams was just unnecessary.

I’ve always really liked Robbie Williams. He seems like a cool guy and he’s a great performer.

The real reason...tinymeat.

ncG1vNJzZmivp6x7pa3TmqOorZ6csm%2BvzqZmraCimq6le5JrbnJuYmmGbsDEpaNmpZVixKnFjKumm5qZmnq4tculoJqlo2KzorXLnptmrJ9isLC60K6cq2WRorKztcKaZLChpJ16ZpGRXm9pXWl4wamxjJ6eqGWYlsBuuMCnm56cVXp%2FZoSPXnB9ZZmjenKFmHI%3D

 Share!

• Share on Facebook
   
• Tweet
   
• Share on Google+
   
• Post to Tumblr
   
• Pin it
   
• Submit to Reddit